WWFirebirds Forum » Car Talk » Fourth Generation

questions about my 93?

(8 posts)

  1. feedback33

    Senior Member
    Joined: Feb '10
    Posts: 64

    Hey guys,
    I’ve just got a few questions about my 93 t/a. I have all 4 disc brakes and was wondering if someone could recommend an upgrade that is affordable and works great, (best bang for the buck) I also seem to have inherited a ripped Tan leather driver side seat. All the upholstery in the car is perfect other than my driver's seat. Does anyone know a good upholstery shop that can fix this and make it look good? Do we have any that are part of our club? I bought my car with the fog lamp switch pushed into the dash because the lip on the switch is broken off. I looked in classic industry’s for that switch and they want 200+ for it. I’m thinking, I’m going to call some pull apart places. I’ve since pulled the switch out of the dash but it seems to be dead the lights don’t work, nor the led on the switch. I plan to look through all the fuses this weekend. Just wondering if there is anything I should know, There seems to be little secrets with random stuff related to firebirds. I can't even express how excited I am to get these bids together and get this stuff fixed. It is such a nice feeling to be putting money into something I can see, use and feel. Rather than spending tons of money and having it stuffed into my garage hahaha. Thank you everyone, Hope you have a great weekend. Cory

    1973 firebird, stock 350. soon to be a 467, with a formula hood
    Posted 2 years ago #

  2. feedback33

    Senior Member
    Joined: Feb '10
    Posts: 64

    does anyone know about 4gens? or should I ask somewhere else? no worrys just wondering?

    1973 firebird, stock 350. soon to be a 467, with a formula hood
    Posted 2 years ago #

  3. BOPGuy

    Admin Dude
    Joined: Jan '10
    Posts: 118

    The first 2 questions you have don't relate specifically to 4th gen cars. The first question was about a decent brake upgrade and the second one was about upholstery. I'll hit the upholstery question first. I just had my GTO upholstery done last year and I wasn't satisfied with the work and follow-up that was done on it. When I was shopping for a place to do it, my 'first choice' was a guy that did a lot of show cars but he was not only expensive, he was booked way out into the future (must be a popular guy!). I went with my second choice guy and while he was more reasonably priced, we had our share of difficulties. In that respect, I don't know that I'd really recommend either one of them. Let me know if you want the info on my 'first choice' and I'll give it to you. Since I don't have any personal experience with him, I'm not making any gaurantees about his work though...

    Now for the brake upgrade. I did a SSBC upgrade on my '69 Olds 442. I've yet to drive the car (needs body, glass, interior, dash/gauges, lights, etc) but the brakes look like they'll do the job nicely--WAAYYY better than the DRUMS that were on the front anyway. I believe they were a Force 10 4-piston unit (maybe it was a 2-piston unit, I can't remember--I was on a *budget* at the time). They cost somewhere in the $1000 range, but it's been a while so I'd have to check my records. I guess you first need to figure out how much you want to spend on the upgrade. Sometimes you can get away with just doing some decent rotors and agressive pads for a couple hundred dollars--that's probably your best bang for the buck (that was the question, wasn't it?).

    I bought a set of rotors and pads for my '80 T/A but never actually got them installed before the motor went out and I ended up parting it. I plan to put those rotors and pads onto my '73, so I should have more feedback about how they work in the next few months.

    As for the gen-4 specific stuff, I've never owned one so I'm not the best person to ask. Finding a switch and replacing it I guess would be a universal solution though, and finding a Pull-A-Part or something would definitely be the cheapest.

    Was it your other car earlier that had the possible ground issue which ended up being the NSS? I think on that thread we talked about having a circuit tester. If you don't own one yet, you should make sure that you add one to your toolbox. A 12V probe/tester will be your best friend!

    Good luck, and keep the questions coming!


    BOP = BMW, Olds, & Pontiac
    Past: countless BMWs, Cutlass's, Birds, GTOs, Caddys, VWs, & Jeeps
    Present: a 3, a 7, a 442, a GTO, a Bird, & a jet boat--some even run!
    Future: '87 BMW 325 V8 & '73 Drag Bird
    Posted 2 years ago #

  4. feedback33

    Senior Member
    Joined: Feb '10
    Posts: 64

    Thank you, Bop-
    I will look into the pad upgrade I didn't know if there was a staple bolt on caliper upgrade for that gen. I realize these questions are universal just wanting to rule out anything that is known by everyone but myself. I do have a voltage reg and plan on testing and tracing the wires on the fog lamps, I wanted to ask if it was a common problem. This is the first bird I drive everyday and plan on driving it for a long while. there isnt much wrong with it so I want to make sure to address these few problems before they lead to other problems.
    So on the brake question, I have 4 disc standard on my car. Is it unrealistic to get 4 new calipers/pads or will I have to replace the rotors as well? I think I will try the pad/rotors upgrade first and see how that helps. It currently stops ok, but deff needs some more power i seem to use too much leg muscle to get her to stop

    1973 firebird, stock 350. soon to be a 467, with a formula hood
    Posted 2 years ago #

  5. BOPGuy

    Admin Dude
    Joined: Jan '10
    Posts: 118

    I assume your car has 4-wheel disc brakes with single pistons at each wheel. A 'big brake' upgrade kit will not only use a larger diameter rotor and larger friction surface areas, but will usually incorporate a 2-piston, 4-piston, or even a 6-piston design (this is per caliper).

    'Big brake' upgrades will often times require wheels that are larger than stock, so you must plan to get new wheels if your wheels won't support the larger diameter rotors and calipers. For example, I could NEVER get my stock 14" wheels onto my '69 442 with the big SSBC calipers and rotors at each front wheel. Since I had some spare Corvette C3 wheels, I used those instead. They look awesome.

    Start with the rotors and pads. With rotors, your choices are usually cross-drilled, slotted, and vented (just about ALL fronts will be vented--even stock). There are pros and cons of each as far as heat dissipation and clamping power goes. You need to think about how you drive (daily driver, track use, etc) and how much you really want to spend. There are even ways to increase clamping ability by messing with the power brake booster (without even changing the pads and rotors). If you really want to get into it, your pedal fulcrum point can be modified to give you a different ratio of foot travel to brake pressure. I'm having to do that on my other BMW project since I can't use the factory booster any longer.

    Again, start with the rotors and pads to see where you're at. Remember that the more material you take off the rotors, the less contact area there is on the pad. While a slotted rotor may cool easier for track use, there is actually less surface contact area to use for braking on the pad. But then again, cooler pads and rotors are more efficient for braking purposes. For heavy track use, you'll want a slotted rotor which can cool more quickly. Then again, you'll also want to have cooling air ducts to properly ventilate them for constant heavy-duty use.

    I put some EBC Red pads onto my daily driver BMW and while they squeeled a little during break-in, they seem to be holding up well. I did not change the rotors--they are stock. My goal was to reduce brake dust on my wheels, and they do seem better than stock. I can't say that they stop any better, but dust does seem lower (ie--my wheels are cleaner for longer).

    Good luck, and keep us posted!


    BOP = BMW, Olds, & Pontiac
    Past: countless BMWs, Cutlass's, Birds, GTOs, Caddys, VWs, & Jeeps
    Present: a 3, a 7, a 442, a GTO, a Bird, & a jet boat--some even run!
    Future: '87 BMW 325 V8 & '73 Drag Bird
    Posted 2 years ago #

  6. feedback33

    Senior Member
    Joined: Feb '10
    Posts: 64

    right on man, that is a lot of great info. I will deff upgrade the rotors/pads first. I would be very interested in learning about how to adjust the fulcrum in the brake system. I have always wanted to figure out how to adjust it and never knew if it was possible. Everyone I know has no idea. Is there a book or a paper I can access on how to do this? I wont mess with my car until I do the brake swap, but I am very interested in how that works.
    Thanks man,

    Cory

    1973 firebird, stock 350. soon to be a 467, with a formula hood
    Posted 2 years ago #

  7. sixt8bird

    Moderator
    Joined: Feb '10
    Posts: 77

    All you need to do is drill a hole higher up on the brake pedal. I think that if you change the pads you may find the braking you need. You should be able to plant the brakes to where they will start to pulse which will tell you that your Antilock brakes are working. There might be something else wrong if you have to push real hard on them.
    Also a myth that bugs the crap out of me is when people say that their disc brakes don't stop like their old drum brakes. They say they use to be able to lock all 4 drums with ease and it takes alot more effort with the discs. Drums have more surface area contact and cause lock up.
    This is because discs were made to pinch and "NOT LOCK UP" as easily. Once a wheel loses traction, it doesn't stop as fast. It doesn't mean that it should take more pedal effort though.
    The weird thing Cory, is that I have 4 wheel discs on my 2 1968 Firebirds and they stop on a dime without much effort.
    They basically have been upgraded to 1979-1981 Trans Am discs and I know the 4th gens stopped even better?

    Posted 2 years ago #

  8. BOPGuy

    Admin Dude
    Joined: Jan '10
    Posts: 118

    As for the fulcrum thing, most brake pedals swing from the very top and the rod which goes through to the brake booster is part way down the pedal. The higher the rod is on the pedal, the more force is exerted on the brake booster (but the less travel there is in the rod). The higher the rod is, the less foot pressure you need to effect the same pressure on the rod. You just might have to press it further so that the rod travels the same distance. You can't go too high or too low on the rod because you want it to travel in a relatively straight line (perpindicular to the booster). In extreme circumstances, I guess you may even need to change the pivot point.

    I've never done it and I'm not giving any sort of warranty or fitness for purpose here.

    And as sixt8bird says, once you hit the ABS pulse, it doesn't matter what your pedal or fulcrum do, you've hit the maximum amount of pressure that you need to make the ABS kick in. Does the car have ABS? My '94 Caprice had them and I know that those years were mostly covered...


    BOP = BMW, Olds, & Pontiac
    Past: countless BMWs, Cutlass's, Birds, GTOs, Caddys, VWs, & Jeeps
    Present: a 3, a 7, a 442, a GTO, a Bird, & a jet boat--some even run!
    Future: '87 BMW 325 V8 & '73 Drag Bird
    Posted 2 years ago #

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